Quickbooks 2007license And Product Number

Discussion on "chemtrails" / 2

Tom Woods replied to my round of considerations in debate on the phenomenon of "Chemtrails." I'm on vacation until Monday, so for now I simply point out the 'intervention Woods, referring to comments and responses coming days.

June 1, 2009
I'm back back from vacation: full public below the 'intervention Tom Bosco as it appears on its website today, with only two changes:

• repagination The text was to be clear, adding initials "PA" and "TB" to clarify the writer, but without altering the content.
• The URL of the video, if the original encrypted and therefore not copiaincollabile here, has been replaced with the equivalent non-encrypted version.

CHEMICAL SCIE: The Neverending Story ...

"You can not see a thing unless you believe there is." - Terry Brooks

Or, at least, if not at least take into account the possibility that there might be. I think the crux of the case is this: from what I have been able to see, the side of the skeptics with a vengeance that she magnificently represents has always done its utmost to try to remove any question exceeded the bounds of the "normalcy" and put into question the very foundations of what we call "shared reality". So it is that in the cauldron of "urban legends" from "sbufalare" (personally I find it bleak and at the same time maleficamente geniale l’uso di questo neologismo, parte di un preciso e raffinato protocollo di condizionamento psicologico, confezionato ad hoc da gente che conosce bene il proprio mestiere…) trovino pari dignità Wanna Marchi e l’11 settembre, il mago Otelma e le scie chimiche, allo scopo di ingenerare la falsa impressione che il substrato di origine di tutte queste svariate questioni sia riconducibile a null’altro che all’imbroglio, alla frode o alla vera e propria paranoia di alcuni individui.

Vorrei aggiungere che trovo estremamente difficile, in questo preciso momento (28 maggio, ore 15.03), attenermi alle regole di un confronto pacato su questo argomento, tale è il disgusto che provo nel dover be here to discuss in a "politically correct" about the existence of so-called "chemtrails" while in the sky above my head raging air activity unprecedented since this morning at 9 (when the sky was clear, blue skies and there was a plane to pay) is a show that started hallucinating not define justice. At any time watching the sky, I could observe and count a minimum of six aircraft until even 9:00 to 10:00, all with their beautiful persistent contrails that blend together. The sky is now a milky brew, and I should accept the idea of \u200b\u200bbeing a paranoid, noted that the traffic is completely normal and that those are very normal contrails Condensation ...


That said, we enter into the substance of his remarks.

[PA] [...] this is the core of the problem. Never mind the controversy and personal pitfalls real or alleged: that there is evidence of the existence of "chemtrails"? Those that have been submitted so far were not convincing and in fact are not accepted by the community of experts. Indeed, very often the verification work has shown that such errors or false.

Sorry, very busy, but who would have represented this community of professionals? On what basis they have expressed proprie valutazioni? Dando un’occhiata ai vari argomenti a sostegno della realtà del fenomeno delle “scie chimiche”, tutti presumibilmente analizzati, spiegati e destituiti da qualsiasi fondamento proprio nel suo sito, ho trovato affermazioni sorprendenti, quando non addirittura fuorvianti, di questi sedicenti “addetti ai lavori”, come questa:

2.08. Dai radiosondaggi si può capire se sussistono le condizioni per la formazione o la persistenza delle scie?
No. Quest'idea nasconde una serie di passaggi logici dati per scontati che vale la pena esaminare. I radiosondaggi sono misurazioni eseguite da pochissimi centri meteorologici in Italia, tramite il launch of balloons equipped with sensors. These probes lead up to very high market shares (including 30,000 m) and provide the middle ground control data of temperature, humidity and pressure throughout their journey. order to examine the data of radiosondes and whether the formation of contrails is possible, they should be true at least three major assumptions:
1. The soundings should provide consistent results and error-free;
2. The values \u200b\u200bof the soundings should not vary significantly at a distance of many miles and much time from the point and time of measurement;
3. The training requirements should be compared permettere, con precisione assoluta, di definire se la scia di condensazione si formerà o meno. Nessuno di questi tre assunti è vero:
1. I radiosondaggi, come ogni strumento, commettono errori spesso abbastanza vistosi; siccome viene usata una sola sonda, non è possibile fare un trattamento statistico dei dati cercando di avvicinarsi al valore vero.
2. Come si è già detto, la variabilità delle condizioni atmosferiche è molto alta: una misura puntuale non può in alcun modo fornire con precisione la situazione in quota, né il variare di tale situazione col passare del tempo.
3. Le condizioni teoriche per predire la formazione derivano models that are simplifications of the real conditions and which are far from infallible in their predictions, especially if you try to use them without knowing it and without knowing the characteristics, limitations and fallibility.

Extraordinary. This means that when, as a driver, I will compile a flight plan it based on these weather data for the various units, I will not give me too much pain to try to understand if, for example, or meet conditions less favorable to the formation of ice on the wings, or a strong head-wind that could make me consume more fuel than expected and even prevent me from reaching its destination, because "the variability of weather conditions is very high. " In other words, the techniques of piloting and navigation are still taught in flight schools around the world are just an approximation, if not a waste of time, however, since the climatic conditions at high altitude would be a kind of statistical exercise, when the lottery. Fortuna wants (and so-called experts conveniently forgot to mention this fact) that the collection and interpretation of weather data for the various units and routes are also based on information provided by pilots in flight, which ensures that the reports relating to terms and conditions net to be regularly updated and thus reasonably accurate.

[PA] Posso chiederle qual è la sua "best evidence" dell'esistenza del fenomeno?

Direi proprio quella che il passo citato sopra cerca convenientemente di smontare: il fatto che in innumerevoli circostanze un numero spropositato di velivoli si trovassero ad emettere lunghe scie persistenti occupando uno spazio di cielo che in quel momento, stando ai dati forniti dagli enti preposti, non offriva condizioni meteorologiche favorevoli alla formazione di scie di condensazione. A maggior ragione quando alcuni di questi velivoli, occasionalmente, si trovavano a quote considerevolmente inferiori alle minime necessarie a innescare detto fenomeno (fatto del quale sono stato personalmente testimone svariate volte).

Uno di these cases is well documented in this short video, shot around Turin October 6, 2003, of which I possess full version, which certainly offers a better quality and definition:

It seems quite clear (although it based on the statements of the operator who carried out the shooting), which framed the aircraft is flying at an altitude considerably lower than the canonical 8,000 + yards ... You can see that it issues rather than continuing along the trails the entire trailing edge of both wings. Of course, even in this case everyone will see what wants to see, as one who brings up strings of Berenice and other aerodynamic effects of condensation which could theoretically explain the observed phenomenon (but certainly not the length of the trails emitted from the plane in question), but the weather of that day do not justify it .

[PA cites TB] network exists in a mass of documents, patents, analysis, discussion, such that anyone with common sense and a healthy minimum of will and intelligence will be able to evaluate and discern how things really are.

[PA] Here, I would ask you to show me these documents, you already know and therefore should not involve too much effort.

Excuse me, but at this point I feel cheated: she knows very well these documents, reported in all the main sites that deal with the phenomenon of chemtrails.

Patent potentially linked to the phenomenon of chemtrails (I selected the most interesting):
U.S. Patent 4,948,050 (Picot)
U.S. Patent 4,412,654 (Yates et al.)
U.S. Patent 3,813,875 (Paine et al.)
U.S. Patent 6,315,213 (Cordani)
U.S. Patent 5,003,186 (Chang et al.)
U.S. Patent 3,899,144 (Werle et al.)

The patent system HAARP (item essential for the project below)
U.S. Patent 4,686,605 (Eastlund)

Own Weather by 2025

The Space Preservation Act 2001, where he appears just the term "chemtrails"

These two documents are truly enlightening:

Climate Change Global Warming



For more documents, I suggest the following web pages: 1 , 2

However, even the RAI has confirmed the existence of these "chemtrails", although he did talking about the Russian (Communist trails!)

[PA cita TB] Per quanto mi riguarda, io vedo quello che vedo, e in questo sono spalleggiato da persone estremamente qualificate, come un ingegnere aeronautico, un ex-pilota da caccia, o un biologo di sua conoscenza: ma da quello che ho letto sul suo blog, non mi sembra che lei o i suoi sodali abbiate mostrato il benché minimo rispetto nei suoi confronti e verso le argomentazioni da lui presentate

[PA] Posso chiedere quali sono le argomentazioni tecniche dell'ingegnere aeronautico e dell'ex pilota?

L’ingegnere aeronautico penso lo conosca bene; si tratta dell’ing. Luigi Fenu, che ha scritto questo interessante articolo challenged a controversial report published by the magazine Focus and interesting PowerPoint presentation on contrails.

Former AMI pilot is an officer with over thirty years of service, which was finally convinced of the anomalous nature of these trails when he observed a long, dense and persistent flow to the side of Mount Terminillo ( I think it was the Terminillo) and if you check, this peak reaches 2217 meters (even if it was the Gran Sasso, 2912 m, we remain well below the 3000 meters). I believe that a professional with thousands of flying hours under his belt knows how to interpret correctly the phenomenon in the light of its experience.

[PA] For the biologist, I presume you are referring to Dr. Pattera. It is not over: it is made. Dr. Pattera makes false allegations, he rejects the evidence of the facts documented in the literature and ridicule those who point out his mistakes by bringing facts to support. This is a behavior that does not induce compliance. I refer to the issue of so-called "spiders Migration, which explain some phenomena apparently related to so-called" chemtrails "Pattera existence denied. But their existence is documented from the time of Darwin and just a sheet to find the Journal of Arachnology the literature that confirms the dispersion beyond 5000 m above sea level ...

Let us admit the existence of these "spiders Migration: what evidence you can provide to support this working hypothesis? The analysis revealed a Dr. Pattera seems artificial component in the samples examined by him. In this case, I think you're failing. And then, Pattera is not the only one who has submitted documentation in this regard: 1 , 2.


[PA cites TB] ... nor do I have reason to believe that this attitude would be different in respect of others. As I said, "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert."

[PA cites TB] On this I beg to differ. There is no paper of literature that confirms the thesis of dr. Pattera or "chemtrails" in general. The vast majority of the experts confirmed that the "chemtrails" are simple contrail misinterpreted by non-experts. is not "equal and opposite: it is not a small minority of experts against a huge number of experts. For example, I know that none of the 52,500 pilots of the Air Line Pilots Association, the U.S. has ever expressed support for the thesis that delle "scie chimiche". Nessun meteorologo si è espresso pro-scie, ma molti lo hanno fatto per chiarire che il fenomeno è un abbaglio. Lei, nella sua esperienza di pilota, ha mai visto con i suoi occhi una scia persistente alle quote (2000 m o meno) asserite dai sostenitori delle "scie chimiche"?

Non a 2000 metri o meno, ma sicuramente tra i 2500 e i 3000. La prima volta, e la più eclatante, è stato nel maggio del 1999, intorno a Rovigo. Due velivoli su rotte parallele, separati da circa 5 miglia nautiche, da est verso ovest. Uno spettacolo che non dimenticherò mai.

[PA cita TB] Quindi, che cosa dovrei fare? Perdere ore preziose per raccogliere and cataloging all the material in my possession, in order to refute point by point to the many issues relating subjects such as meteorology, climate, aerodynamics, chemistry, biology, geology, nanotechnology, electronics, geopolitics , economics, etc.., all critical to an understanding of the complex phenomenon of chemtrails in its entirety?

[PA] No. It would be enough to start from a single, very simple: "chemtrails" exist? What evidence is there? If the tests hold, then we talk about everything else. But it is here, in my opinion, we must leave.

Well, I seem to have provided a pretty solid argument. I am also convinced that chemtrails are part of an integrated system for the control and manipulation of the climate, which apparently is the central element of the HAARP project. In this I am in total harmony with General Fabio Mini. The European parliament he is worried.

I also believe that one of the critical areas of this program is off the Atlantic coasts of France and Spain, at the Bay of Biscay, where a constant and intensive documents the attempts (often successful) to "lock" or "divert "The damp and cold fronts arriving on the European continent. I listened more di una testimonianza diretta da passeggeri in volo sull'Atlantico che parlavano di istruzioni a chiudere tutte le tendine parasole, di giorno e di notte, da parte del personale di volo, proprio in corrispondenza di quest'area. Naturalmente chi ha sbirciato da dietro le tendine ha visto coi propri occhi qualcosa che rasentava l'incredibile...

Sulle eventuali ragioni di tale programma, posso senz’altro rimandare al famoso documento “Possedere il Clima entro il 2025” redatto dall’USAF, che ho citato sopra e che lei senz’altro conosce bene.

[PA cita TB] Personalmente ritengo manchi ancora un elemento di prova fondamentale per dirimere una volta per tutte la questione delle scie chemical, and I am working to get it. When can I have it, I'll be glad to open a discussion with you on this matter, so as to focus on a specific issue, but potentially curative. I hope to be able to realize all within the current year.

[PA] Interesting. May I ask what is this element?

What should have been collecting agencies with appropriate means, if they really had wanted to settle the matter once and for all, and despite the urgings of thousands of citizens did not. A sampling of the atmosphere at high altitude, combined with the occurrence of the phenomenon in question.

[PA cites TB] Given the record, I do not expect in any case his second thoughts on the matter. From its easy sarcasm, I understand his skepticism that spans virtually every area of \u200b\u200bhuman knowledge. Blessed is she who is comforted by the assurance of "science": the only certainty I have is that of having none.

[PA] contrary, Mr. Bosco. In the face of incontrovertible evidence, I'd be willing to change his mind, as is the technical community. I do not reject the facts: I only ask that they are well established. Do not confuse skepticism with caution and prudence with certainty. The bulk of scientific evidence, so far, indicates that it is reasonable to say that the "chemtrails" do not exist. But the scientific method requires that, before conclusive demonstration of a phenomenon, this phenomenon is accepted as scientific. This has not happened yet, but if it happened, I'd be the first to rethink my position.

Here we are in a Catch-22 paradox: "There are no scientific studies proving the existence of chemtrails, and then carry out a study aimed to prove its existence is not necessary." It seems to me that all the scientific literature which is referred always starts from the assumption that in the case of contrails, but I've never seen any evidence that categorically proves that it is only and exclusively to this natural phenomenon, as certain physical mechanisms are common to both ways (for example, condensation nuclei). This is because it has never started a research program (if we exclude the much reviled independent researchers ...) in order to investigate the presence or absence of metallic debris at high altitude, as claimed by proponents of the thesis "chemistry." And I do not you come to mention the ridiculous test on jet fuel by Discovery Channel: where is it written that any chemicals would be sprayed through the exhaust of the turbine?

[PA] supporters are, if anything, the existence of "chemtrails" that demonstrate unshakable certainty and reach to say that photos of contrail pre-1990 are false and that even Life commits them to mask the conspiracy. Do you agree with these positions?

I think I already answered the question of the picture Life, and also the question of unshakable certainty. I do not deny there are any disputes about the excesses of chemtrails, but I seem to be shared equally by both parties. For example, what do you think this picture of his companion "Peyote" that I found online?



[PA] I ask, in conclusion, the consensus publication of its kind reply. Although she has so far said no to a debate, I think it is right that our readers know that dialogue is possible and that there is willingness on his part and interest in doing experiments to settle the issue, and these attitudes are laudable and constructive.

I hope that his words are sincere, given the absolute seriousness of the matter. From what I have seen and read so far, I would be skeptical, but always ready to reconsider my position. Of course I do not expect that my plastic surgery can cause it to revise its. It is our approach that is diametrically opposite: his is characterized by a reductionist scientism that seeks to break down in all factors explained rationally, my type is more holistic, inclusive. It will be a professional deformation due to the fact that for years directing a magazine called NEXUS , which in Latin means "link". In other words, an information model that aims to find and show the connections between seemingly unconnected elements.

In conclusion, I am more than convinced that soon the tide will unequivocally justice to many issues currently under dispute. In fact it is already happening, but we have not yet clearly understood due to a cultural model and an outdated system media too supine to certain vested interests who would like everyone to continue to remain as is. But it is increasingly approaching the time when each of us must choose a side.

I've already made my choice a long time, and apparently this applies to you. I hope that, independently of each other's position, we can at least maintain a respectful attitude towards those of others. Anyway, I appreciated the tone within which civil, at least for the moment, we were able to confine this discussion. If it is necessary, the resume, although I'd rather be in the presence of radically new elements, whether in favor or against hypothesis or the other. If we are still here to talk about the reality of the phenomenon or the buffalo, there is a reason as well ... and personally I have quite clear ideas about it.

Below, some photos with commentary.

A classic "grid" of trails at sunset. Condensation trails, or something else?

Two examples of photography, before which I find really grotesque to hear about normal "contrails" ...


dificult to think that in airway civil traffic routes to follow this type ...

... but in this case and the following year, judging by the turning radius so tight ...

... this is certainly a relatively small military aircraft: fighters or fighter-bombers.


An MD-80 in a "sprayer": note the substantial wake emitted along the entire trailing edge of the wing ...

condensation trails? We need a good dose of imagination and courage to think that the simple water vapor can produce such effects ...


I heard bring up the effects of condensation "streamlined" for photos like this. I do not deny that could happen, but so long and persistent?

Oooops ... a plane leaves the trail and the other does not. Two portions of the atmosphere "in separate house?

Another example of different atmospheres in a confined space. According to a Swissair captain who commented this picture, it is possible but highly unlikely in this way, if not impossible. It is more likely the depletion of a reservoir and the passage to another, or something ...


Normal contrails? Really?

Examples of abnormal refraction due to particulate matter released from the usual "chemtrails" ...

A "Mammatus" rare cloud formation theory, but for some reason, more and more frequent in many places the old and the new continent ...


electromagnetic Climate Change? Meteorologists what they have to say about it?

Milena Velba Under Age

Scie vintage: an Italian book the show in 1944

One of the dogmas of the supporters of the "chemtrails" is that aircraft contrails did not form before the nineties and that the books that show before that date are false. In this case, these false, who knows how placed in the collections of books of many ordinary people, is also added heavy bombers of World War II , published in 1982 by Edipem, segnalatomi by a reader, Robyxdj, which I left scans.



On page 20 is shown in this photograph of a B-17 bomber. The caption describes it as an image taken over Berlin in March 1944.





On page 28 of the same book appears the following caption referring to the main photo: "Above: a B-24H Group 453 · Bomba after the bombing of a German airport in February 1944. The ventral ball turret is lowered, and the numerous contrails denounce the presence of the fighter escort at a higher level. "



enlarging the image can be seen that the wakes cross each other, forming grids that supporters of "chemtrails" deemed to be a recent phenomenon and mysterious.

How Much Is It To Have A Bathroom Fan Installed

Scie drift

A short video turned to me with the technique of time-lapse (lapse) shows, at 125 times normal speed, the evolution of a contrail left in the area of \u200b\u200bLugano May 20, 2009 between 5:50 and 7 am. It 's interesting to note that the trail is transported smoothly from high altitude winds, without unraveling or deform dramatically. In other words, it behaves exactly like the clouds in the same proportion seen in the video.

Letter Of Intention To Sell A Car

Sciachimisti in Florence May 22: Help them to read up (UPD20090526)

The article was updated after initial publication.

Tomorrow, Friday, May 22, will be held Florence at a conference dedicated to promoting the alarm about "chemtrails". The meeting will be held from 15 at the Conference Room of Villa Rusciano, Via Benedetto Fortini 37.

Speakers Pattera Rosario Marciano and George, known to those who follow the issue; the deputy in charge of the Long Claudio, Antonio Sarpieri, the municipal council of Savignano sul Rubicon "first town in Italy to adopt a motion on the issue of chemtrails ; Angelo Baracca, "lecturer in physics at the University of Florence" , and (via Internet), professor of physics and the deputy Corrado Penna Sandro Brandolini, author of parliamentary questions on the subject of "chemtrails" .

If you have occasion to go there, I would ask a favor: to help these people to read. Giorgio Pattera, for example, remains convinced that the migration to the wind spiders (programs that create seemingly mysterious filaments, placed in relation to the "chemtrails") does not exist, and believes, along with Corrado Penna, that contrails Condensation is a real phenomenon rare because it requires a relative humidity of 70% in the atmosphere.

you want to bring them some 'documentation in order to correct their mistakes? Do not need to spend the entire afternoon listening to their statements: download and print the documents listed below, draw them closer in a break in the conference and consegnateglieli politely asking them to read and explain the contents as indicated below. If possible, pick the scene and posted the video on the Internet.

At least from now on can not say they were not informed.

• The Formation of Exhaust Condensation Trails by Jet Aircraft , H. Appleman, Bulletin American Meteorological Society, 1953: still a reference text for the meteorologists, not only documents the existence of contrails well before the nineties, but that document contains tables that contrails are formed with 0% relative humidity (public only cover e le tabelle ( una e due ) in questione per motivi di copyright)
• L' Encyclopaedia Britannica , edizione cartacea, Vol. 21, voce "spider" , che cita il reperimento di filamenti di ragni migratori a vari chilometri di quota ( copertina e citazione ).
• Aerial Dispersal in a Known Spider Populati on , Eric Duffey, Journal of Animal Ecology , Vol. 25, No. 1, May, 1956, che documenta che la migrazione aerea dei ragni è nota dai tempi di Aristotele e che vengono trovati anche in quota.
• La lista delle citazioni e delle fotografie of "spiders high altitude" in the technical literature and documentaries, including pictures of The Living Planet (BBC, 1984).
• The denial of "chemtrails" compiled by meteorologists to Meteoromagna. The document
• denial and explanation of the Italian pilots of MD80.it.
• The denials of meteorologist Mario Giuliacci, the pilot and the physicist Peter Pallini Dario Giaiotti Regional Meteorological Centre of the Friuli Venezia Giulia.
  

24/05/2009: The guide to who was

A reader, Ignis , was present at the meeting and sent me these notes that the public in full, with minor modifications to remove typos and formatting. There being no evidence so far of third parties or video recordings (among other things prohibited by the organizers), the public report with the necessary condition that the professional ethics requires me, although I have no reason to doubt the good faith of Ignis. The personal comments of Ignis are separated from the note indicated by square brackets and in italics. Highlights are mine. My comments are out of the blue box.

I attended the conference for mere curiosity, I had two friends (an engineer and a physicist), on some occasions (eg at certain movies that I considered of little interest) sono uscito dalla sala per prendere aria (la giornata era calda e umida, maledette scie chimiche), mi scuso quindi con tutti per eventuali refusi ed errori o omissioni.

Scie chimiche, convegno a Firenze, 22 maggio 2009
[NDR: un nemico esiste e se non esiste inventiamolo]

Arrivo presto (14:20), sala quasi vuota, una decina i presenti tra relatori e persone che penso siano parte dell'associazione. Verso le 15:00 la sala si riempie. Sono presenti circa 90-100 persone. Sul tavolo dove siedono i relatori è presente una scatola con su scritto “contributi” . Alla conferenza gente di molte età e “tipo”, fuori anche a van for "OSHO.

Among the speakers do not sit Angelo Baracca, who sits near the front row defiladed instead of chairs for the audience.

A girl opened the conference, I suppose to represent the association. He says that the purpose of the meeting ask questions and see what happens. States that the Department did not give any economic support, is forbidden to shoot video and still the video (there's a camera that takes over) will be posted on the Internet, the speakers have not received any compensation, only those who are from outside has received a refund.

us that there is a list where you can enter your name and to participate in initiatives Committee [which committee?]

It 's very interesting to note that precisely the sciachimisti, those who accuse everyone of attacking, they falsify and obscure the truth, whether that prohibit shooting video.

The "committee" in question is presumably the "Committee Tanker Enemy" Rosario Marciano.

Talk Councillor Del Lungo, which states that the availability of the hall is given in "automatic" associations requesting them to: Grant the room does not mean sharing the contents of the conference.

This statement may be seen as a distancing councilor, but it is to ask a question on the sense and plausibility of this approach: if the room had been requested by an association that denies the Holocaust or promote racism or intolerance, or pedophilia, was granted the same "automatic"?

The granting of the room did not involve any cost to the City. He has no interest in political MISUSE conference, because that is not a candidate and has no intention to continue in politics.

He traced on articles published in past decades (he cites one of Heron) who spoke of the dangers of burning in the air and cites the experiments of the 70s to avoid the hail on campi.

Si chiede se c'è un uso di sostanze nei cieli, se è sistematico. L'ARPA non fa questo tipo di analisi. Lui non crede all'uso sistematico.

Ha ricevuto decine di email, per lo più anonime, con su scritto “vergogna” “vai a studiare” ecc... [non ha parlato di “minacce”] oltre a telefonate anche dal mondo accademico [vox populi dice che una telefonata di un suo amico iniziava con “che ca**o fai ..”] .

Il bombardamento di email e telefonate a cui è stato sottoposto in questi giorni lo rende meno scettico verso le “scie chimiche”... mai in nessuna occasione aveva vissuto something. Hopes that someone in the debate refutes the arguments of supporters of "chemtrails." Those who offend is always in the wrong [the commissioner is annoyed but finally seems to have good understanding of who they are sciachimisti .. will understand the first surgery]

Talk Marciano: is defined as an independent researcher. He noted this phenomenon four years ago, we noted, today the sky over Florence is white. He says that the work of air traffic has decreased in recent years but the trails increases. We see, we see that flying low [as a scientific approach is not bad] .

Talk phone Corrado Penna, presented as a physicist. Marciano runs the slide.

degree certificate is shown in pen (he says that anyone has questioned that had graduated). He says the denial rather than criticize the attacks on a personal basis , with slide shows a screenshot of a blog comment to Attivissimo. It tells us that

trails 80 to 20 miles last 5 minutes instead of hours. We must not surprising that the government is trying to poison us, has already happened in the past. Show article in the Guardian "Millions Were in germ war tests" . Start listing of conspiracy theories and arguments and pseudobufale from poor scientific basis [at this point, the friend next to me build a grid on the paper type lottery in which it scored the theories mentioned, will make only a "quintet", for the tombola lacked the protocols of Zion, which in fact has not nominated] .

tells us that ADHD is a disease invented [workhorse of groups that are related to Scientology or that it has cultural roots] and that six million children are being treated with Ritalin. The lead singer of Nirvana was treated with Ritalin as a child. There are fake committees of parents pushing for drugs [false but long to explain here] .

In Italy we have vaccines to mercury causes autism [another controversial issue especially in USA, to date no scientific support] . This is because companies have stockpiles of vaccines to be sold [in practice this digression is to say that we should not be surprising if we want to poison] .

tells us that behind the chemtrails is a big conspiracy and that many know but few speak.

He explains the formation mechanism of the contrails with a drawing showing a piston that compresses steam and a drawing showing a refrigerator, in practice shows that the air acts as a piston compressing the air so the vapor becomes a liquid , releasing the compression (ie when the plane flies away) returns to the Steam [ignorant I wonder: and other factors that affect, such as humidity and temperature? ]

Pen speaks of increased traffic [but how? Marciano had not said that it was decreasing?]

In old photos there are trails, new, yes. Advertising is full of contrails, seem to want to do subliminal advertising [sic] .

Giuffrida talks about a book that gives us the parameters of moisture / pressure for the formation of condensation. The site that gives the parameters for its calculations to first provide updates every hour, now only an average 12 hours, please note that it is suspicious.

He concludes that the aim is also that of mind control, it is no coincidence that in this election period contrails are many more .

[With this pearl of the conference could be close, my friend asks me to control myself because I can see already rolled under my chair laughing. The commissioner seems to have understood Del Lungo, gets up and goes away without saying goodbye]

Talk George Pattera [his is the action more credible to the look and charm of the character as well as to build realistic and sophist which] . He complimented Del Lungo, is surprising because of the emails and phone calls saying that if they are crazy enough to ignore them and give them the "civil death" anziché fare queste guerre.

Dice che la scienza davanti un fenomeno nuovo deve indagare, che ci sono i dati che mostrano l'esistenza del fenomeno [le solite cose, 8000 mt, - 40° ecc...] . Però la Pubblica Amministrazione non se ne interessa (come l'ARPA) o dice che questo fenomeno non è vero. Le risposte alle interrogazioni parlamentari sono state vaghe.

Mostra un video del meteorologo tedesco che dice che ci sono scie che non sono nuvole e non sa cosa sono. Pattera chiosa che forse questo meteorologo ha pagato col licenziamento quell'affermazione.

Lunga dissertazione sulle analisi delle tele dei ragni fatte da lui e dall'università di Firenze (non può fare il nome del biologist for fear of retaliation). Shows a video that frames a trail and a filament chemical [the question is .. how big was this wake zoom to frame a thousand yards away and a filament of a few cm?]

is interrupted [from what will become of my myths] Palermo from a guy who says that the same type of filaments is found at the Marian apparitions.

Resumes Pattera talking about a U.S. patent to change the fabric of a rare spider that lives in Australia (and therefore "non-domestic" [sic] ). On the filaments have made the test burning etc ... [yawn and I leave the room] .

So these paintings are nothing more than small parachute. On 30 December [do not remember what year] in Parma they sent a series of complaints, the only body that showed interest was the ARPA, but the next day the paper read the news of six executives arrested ARPA [I did not understand the link] . Closes by saying that if he had said that the earth is flat there would have been the bombardment of email in Del Lungo.

Mark shows the differences between the microscope and nanopolymers spider's web, which are nothing if not carriers incorporating nanosensors [with all 'sti need is Snow White dwarfs] and other things. E 'in the sulfur dare questa colorazione al cielo. Oggi nel cielo c'è una copertura biancastra anche se le previsione dicevano “sole” [una prova scientifica ineluttabile] .

La copertura fa da serra e crea uno strato elettroconduttivo. Il caldo e l'effetto serra, non sono causati dal CO2 ma dalle microonde. In tutti i filmati ufficiali [ma che sono i filmati ufficiali?] non ci sono scie.

Pattera dice che a San Marino, in occasione di un convegno in cui parlò di scie chimiche, un amico colonnello lo avvertì che avrebbe potuto avere noie. Saluta e va via.

Parla l'assessore Serpieri [mi pare in perfetta buona fede ma non so come spiegarmi questa sua adesione a questa outlandish conspiracy theory. I have no interest in his speech, go out] . They try to intervene to

Hon. Brandolini, but the link does not work.

Marciano: same old crap: -40 °, 70% relative humidity, -6 ° per km are involved military and civilian aircraft spraying build a grid at different heights, preferably the towns. Spraying with drones [memories that I have Italian Air Force, there was no money even to buy the pen, the old F104 flying - and often, unfortunately, fell - for the ability of mechanical and engine .. should be '!] .

All this to create a sandwich [I love the technical terms] the electroconductivity. At high altitude the humidity drops to zero.

NASA is part of the conspiracy [here and really do not understand, if NASA is part of the plot because it is NASA same to provide them with data that clings to justify their outlandish theory?]

Talk Hon. Brandolini [I'm out, back and my friend tells me that Brandolini stated that more information can be found in Wikipedia on the subject. I curse to myself and I plan to check on my return home] .

Talk interpellation submitted that, also signed by three colleagues Democratic Party [but things a bit 'more serious to worry? But that will not just ask what he was defense minister during the Prodi government?]

finished the telephone intervention, even Serpieri be away for political commitments.

Mark speaks of "disinformation" , how it is obvious that since they are paid 24 hours a day to make him the war. DJ is a very active [from the audience makes him a note that he is a surveyor] . The uninformed have a modus operandi that is only meant to do it off the handle.

Meteorology in Italy is managed only by the military. He wants answers from those who count and not from the racks as Attivissimo. The contradiction will accept only those who count. Show a movie in which it is parodied.

Questions from the audience: an old man points out that it is too evil to think that there is such a vast network of complicity and that they are poisoning themselves [as well as their loved ones poisoning] . The ladies, however, is silenced [apparently not yet the time for questions] . However, a gentleman spoke of the committee of anti-Roma trails that mentions the work of his committee.

[this "trend and a return" (questions yes, no questions) seems to happen because they want to talk to the prof. Cabin, which seems rather do not want it to intervene]

Resumes word marks. Just analyze the tears and urine and rainwater in areas away from industrial sites to understand the phenomenon. So we talk about:

• bees dying (or have nervous system damage and this damage if they have the bees then we .. etc ...)
• electromagnetic waves [aridaje]
• Preservation Act
• HAARP
• microwave at 16 Hz
• a case of Alzheimer's disease every 74 seconds [Madonna oh, do here or in a hurry to go away or I'll never say goodbye to my dear] . Parkinson's, MS etc. .. and aluminum in snacks Mulino Bianco [here, IMHO, is at risk lawsuit]
• chelation therapy as a solution to many ills
• the City of San Remo, which denied him a place in which to carry out the conference.

[They did, convinced cabin. Of him, my friend, I mentioned some anecdotes describing it as a man, perhaps a bit 'eccentric]

Cabin speaks of science and the role of the scientist. Points out that he knows nothing of chemtrails and have insisted that long to do this action. He believes that science progresses by the military more than civilian. Cold fusion exists, it is a reality [sic] .

It 's late, I 18:30, there was enough room for questions. At 18:50 we leave the room because the beautiful mansion that is home to close.

Boy (skeptic like me) shows the analysis of the filaments Pattera that contradict what he said, Pattera is absent; Marco answers, which in essence states that there is no contradiction [apparently annoyed that the first question is that of a "disinformation"] .

As we talk about filaments and that he insists on the differences detected by the microscope, I ask, since you do not go to take part in the filaments but collect them from the earth, how can you be sure that you have analyzed the filament is not a thread of my sweater? Marciano says that they collect when there are trails and then it is clear, and anyway you see falling from the sky [Okay, 'I have now given up all approach to even lick the scientific method] .

Questions should be dry, but from here we see a series of mini-rallies:

1. The boy from Palermo (the one that the filaments had seen them in the Marian apparitions) makes a long speech about chemtrails in Palermo and recounts how in March and April and then there was a pandemic of acetone my . no one spoke of this pandemic, many old men are dead, the hospitals were full of children and pregnant women, he went by the police and took one by the collar because they said that there is nothing. He asked WWF, Legambiente and other associations to analyze the samples he had collected, but they replied that it took him 500 € [the intervention is on the edge of madness but everyone applauded, then I suppose that I is delirious. Among other things, the Palermo at me .. Why? He says he is married with children, then I feel more comfortable. Beyond the joke was staring at me because I wanted to convince me with his story].
2. also spoke to the type of Rome head of the committee, which outlines the initiatives that have taken [in practice has broken brown by Parliament] . He laments the silence of the institutions in which I point out that there is a fairly accurate answer to La Russa Di Pietro, he says it is vague, then finished his speech, he says, face to face, that the two ladies have told you that stuff secret service [here I reached the apotheosis] .
3. also spoke to another gentleman, who says you have to put an end to these wars and their debunker because "we the citizens" we have only one purpose: to know. We want to have clear answers and some [and replies to parliamentary questions?] . Other
4. intervention instead of a boy che ha letto di recente un libro e, rispondendo al signore che un'ora prima aveva parlato di diabolicità del complotto, cioè di una rete di complicità assolutamente improbabile, dice che i militari sono andati in Kosovo con l'uranio impoverito [avrei piacere di fargli notare che a quei tempi di uranio impoverito non si sapeva nulla.. va be'] .
5. Altro mini-comizio di un altro signore, che ci informa della sua attività nel suo paese. Ci informa che ogni mattina telefona al sindaco per chiedergli di attivarsi! Dice che adesso nessuno più gli dà retta.

Marcianò sottolinea che i disinformatori non si presentano con nome e cognome, a differenza degli altri. Alzo la mano, vorrei precisare che non sono un “disinformatore” perché non ho un blog e non scrivo da nessuna parte e poi che non ho problemi a invitarlo per un caffè e presentarmi come si confà a gente civile quali noi siamo... ma non riesco a dirgli tutto questo, continuano i comizi... la fine dei convegno è vicina.

Mi alzo e vado a riporre due monete da un euro nella cassetta dei contributi, sono stati davvero spesi bene. La sala è tutta gremita di pro-scie, gli scettici siamo sì e no in cinque.

Penso, nella mia ignoranza, che l'uomo tendenzialmente abbia bisogno di paure e nemici per sentirsi legato, parte di uno spicchio di società (e qualcuno ci specula pure). Alla fine dei salmi, fa forse meno danno pensare that there are chemtrails and that the enemy is the government, military, pilots, meteorologists, etc., rather than thinking that the enemy is an immigrant.

Ignis

26/05/2009

Another account of the meeting was published by Thomas Morton here.

Lace Priscilla Curtains With Attached Valance

Finally a debate on a par "scie chemical "clouds

Photo Credit: Photo Studio Andrea Tedeschi courtesy. The article was updated after initial publication.

Thanks to the initiative of a player, Marco Casati, whom I thank for the first time a supporter of the existence of the phenomenon of "Chemtrails" accept a dialectical pair.

Marco has in fact contacted Tom Bosco, Nexus Italy (pictured right), appeared recently in Lugano to present his thesis and the author of an article that in addition to speaking of "chemtrails" I'm concerned directly and obtained from him the availability of a comparison.

So I wrote a forest, offers a formula that, without the pressures of time and the supporters of a convention, let us explore together the respective positions and perhaps defuse the controversy. With the permission of the Forest, here our public correspondence.

May 7, 2009 Good morning Mr. Bosco,

, I am happy the invitation of Marco Casati, who contacted her to propose an interview / debate on the subject of "chemtrails." Unfortunately, the late hour prevented me from staying at the conference in Lugano to talk directly to the session of questions from the audience.

I thought, if she agrees to an exchange of mail to be published progressively and simultaneously at the respective sites / blogs, not so much an interview, then, what amounted to a chat, to find the common ground, sift together data of the problem and get better acquainted. Like a chat "deferred", over time, between a question and answer, to collect sources, documents and images that can contribute to the discussion and give our readers their chance to learn more about the issue, especially in view of the next two events on this television.

If you are interested or would like to propose another plan, I can answer at paolo.attivissimo @ gmail.com or at topone@pobox.com.

Thanks and best regards Paul

Attivissimo
Lugano, Switzerland

television appointments in question are those of The Gay Science and Rebus.

May 9, 2009 Dear Paul

Attivissimo,

I liked his proposal for a civil confrontation in the network for debate, if ever there were still needed on thorny topic of chemtrails. As you know, I had decided not to get entangled in useless controversies and endless discussions, as exemplified by the case of Massimo Mazzucco regarding the issues 11 September 2001, at the end do not carry any of the two opposing "sides" to recognize the reasons of the other and determine conclusively which side is the truth as he likes to say, Duncan M. Roads, editor of the Australian magazine NEXUS which I hereby direct the Italian edition, "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." Pulled by Marco Casati, I was not considering whether he should reconsider my decision, when such a Peyote has seen fit to lend a sort of "trap" through his blog, contact me via email and pretending to be the "Michael" ( http://ilpeyote.blogspot.com/2009/05/ilpeyote-vs- tom-bosco.html ). Despite its later apologized and I have explained the reasons for such behavior, the fact remains that the current debate, if such it can still be defined, it has definitely exceeded the bounds of civil discussion of ideas and has been mired in a swamp of mutual accusations, sarcasm and resentments, provocation, offense free ...

As often happens, it confuses the message with the messenger, and by doing so you throw the baby out with bathwater. That she should accept or not, the phenomenon of chemtrails is terribly real, but nobody knows for sure whatever its motives, although many clues authorized to make assumptions rather consistent, though in some ways puzzling. The fact that these cases bring into serious question the model of reality normally perceived by the general population does not make them less credible and far from a can, even if inconvenient, truth.

network exists in a mass of documents, patents, analysis, discussion, such that anyone with common sense and a healthy minimum of will and intelligence will be able to evaluate and discern how things really are. For me, I see what I see, and this is backed by highly qualified people, as an aeronautical engineer, a former fighter pilot, or a biologist of his knowledge, but from what I read on his blog, I do not think she or its associates have shown the slightest respect for him and to the arguments presented by him, nor do I have reason to believe that this attitude would be different to others. As I said, "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert."

So, what should I do? Losing valuable hours to collect and categorize all the material in my possession, in order to refute point by point to the many issues related matters such as meteorology, climate, aerodynamics, chemistry, biology, geology, nanotechnology, electronics, geopolitics, economics, etc.., all critical to an understanding of the complex phenomenon of chemtrails in its entirety? I should add to the game of those who painstakingly submitting to scrutiny every tree to find the one to break, even see through the forest that surrounds them?

personally think is still missing a key piece of evidence to settle the issue once and for all of chemtrails, and I am working to get it. When can I have it, I'll be glad to open a discussion with you on this matter, so as to focus on a specific issue, but potentially curative. I hope to be able to realize all within the current year.

Given the record, I do not expect in any case his second thoughts on the matter. From its easy sarcasm, I understand his skepticism that spans virtually every area of \u200b\u200bhuman knowledge. Blessed is she who is comforted by the assurance of "science": the only certainty I have is that of having none.

Sincerely
Tom Bosco / NEXUS

May 9, 2009 This is my response to concerns of the Forest: The italics indicate the smallest of the above quotations.

Egregio Paolo Attivissimo,

ho apprezzato la sua civile proposta di un confronto in rete per dibattere, se mai ce ne fosse ancora bisogno, sullo spinoso argomento delle scie chimiche. Come ben sa, avevo deciso di non farmi invischiare in sterili polemiche e discussioni infinite che, come esemplificato dal caso di Massimo Mazzucco per quanto riguarda le questioni inerenti all’11 Settembre 2001, alla fine non portano nessuna delle due opposte “fazioni” a riconoscere le ragioni dell’altra e a stabilire in modo definitivo da che parte stia la verità: come ama dire Duncan M. Roads, editore australiano della rivista NEXUS della quale mi pregio di dirigere l’edizione italiana, “per ogni expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. " Pulled by Marco Casati, I was not considering whether he should reconsider my decision, when a Peyote has seen fit to lend a sort of "trap" through his blog, contact me via email and pretending to be the "Michael" (http : / / ilpeyote.blogspot.com/2009/05/ilpeyote-vs-tom-bosco.html). Despite its later apologized and I have explained the reasons for such behavior, the fact remains that the current debate, if such it can still be defined, it has definitely exceeded the bounds of civil discussion of ideas and has been mired in a swamp of mutual accusations, sarcasm and resentments, provocations, insults free ...

As often happens, it confuses the message with the messenger, and by doing so you throw the baby out with the bathwater. That she should accept or not, the phenomenon of chemtrails is terribly real

Hello Mr Woods,

this is the core of the problem. Never mind the controversy and personal pitfalls real or alleged: that there is evidence of the existence of "chemtrails"? Those that have been submitted so far were not convincing and in fact are not accepted by the community of experts. Indeed, very often the verification work has shown that such errors or false. May I ask

what is your "best evidence" of the existence of the phenomenon?

Once satisfied that the existence, we can assess the implications. But let's start with the basics.

, but nobody knows for sure whatever its motives, although many clues authorized to make assumptions rather consistent, though in some ways puzzling. The fact that these cases bring into serious question the model of reality normally perceived by the general population does not make them less credible and far from a can, even if inconvenient, truth.

network exists in a mass of documents, patents, analysis, discussion, such that anyone with common sense and a healthy minimum of will and intelligence will evaluate and discern how things really are.

Here, I would ask you to show me these documents, you already know and therefore should not involve too much effort.

For myself, I see what I see, and this is backed by highly qualified people, as an aeronautical engineer, a former fighter pilot, or a biologist of his knowledge, but from what I read on his blog, I do not think she or her associates have shown the slightest respect for him and to the arguments presented by him

Can I ask what are the technical arguments aeronautical engineer and former pilot?

As for the biologist, I presume you are referring to Dr. Pattera. It is not over: it is made. Dr. Pattera makes false allegations, he rejects the evidence of the facts documented in the literature and ridicule those who point out his mistakes by bringing facts to support. This is a behavior that does not induce compliance.

I refer to the issue of so-called "spiders Migration, which explain some phenomena apparently related to so-called" chemtrails "Pattera existence denied. But their existence is documented from the time of Darwin and just a puff of the Journal of Arachnology to find the literature that confirms the dispersion beyond 5000 m above sea level. If you like, I can give the details and quotes:

http://tinyurl.com/rcq8pu


, nor do I have reason to believe that this attitude would be different to others. As I said, "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert."

On this I beg to differ. There is no paper of literature that confirms the thesis of dr. Pattera or "chemtrails" in general. The vast majority of the experts confirmed that the "chemtrails" are simple contrail misinterpreted by non-experts.

is not "equal and opposite: it is a small minority of non- experts against a huge number of experts. For example, I know that none of the 52,500 pilots of the Air Line Pilots Association, the U.S. has ever expressed support for the theory of the existence of "chemtrails." No forecaster has expressed pro-trails, but many have done to make clear that the phenomenon is a mistake.

She, in her experience as a pilot, has seen through his eyes a persistent trail quotas (2000 m or less) by the alleged supporters of the "chemtrails"?


So, what should I do? Losing valuable hours to collect and categorize all the material in my possession, in order to refute point by point to the many issues related materials such as meteorology, climate, aerodynamics, chemistry, biology, geology, nanotechnology, electronics, geopolitics, economics, etc.., all critical to an understanding of the complex phenomenon of chemtrails in its entirety?

No. It would be enough to start from a single, very simple: "chemtrails" exist? What evidence is there? If the tests hold, then we talk about everything else. But it is here, in my opinion, we must leave.

I should add to the game of those who painstakingly submitting to scrutiny every tree to find the one to break, even see through the forest that surrounds them?

personally think is still missing a key piece of evidence to settle the issue once and for all of chemtrails, and I am working to get it. When can I have it, I'll be glad to open a discussion with you on this matter, so as to focus on a specific issue, but potentially curative. I hope to be able to realize all within the current year.

Interesting. May I ask what is this element?


Given the record, I do not expect in any case his second thoughts on the matter. From its easy sarcasm, I understand his skepticism that spans virtually every scope of human knowledge. Blessed is she who is comforted by the assurance of "science": the only certainty I have is that of having none.

contrary, Mr. Bosco. In the face of incontrovertible evidence, I'd be willing to change his mind, as is the technical community. I do not reject the facts: I only ask that they are well established. Do not confuse skepticism with caution and prudence with certainty. The mass of evidence so far indicates that it is reasonable to say that the "chemtrails" do not exist. But the scientific method requires that, before conclusive demonstration of a phenomenon, this phenomenon is accepted as scientific. This has not happened so far, but if it happened, I'd be the first to rethink my position.

supporters are, if anything, the existence of "chemtrails" unshakable certainty that show and come to say that the photo of contrail pre-1990 are false and that even Life commits them to conceal the conspiracy. Do you agree with these positions?

I ask, in conclusion, the consent to the publication of its kind reply. Although she has so far said no to a debate, I think it is right that our readers know that dialogue is possible and that there is willingness on his part and interest in doing experiments to settle the issue, and these attitudes are laudable and constructive.

Yours Regards Paul

Attivissimo

The reference to the famous Life magazine about some photographs of contrails published in the forties, as this picture is the edition of December 20, 1944 , available here , and taken by George Silk during the Battle of the Bulge:

The photo is also available on the website of the historical journal:

It is not the only image like this:

is one of the advantages of the debate by mail: the ability to retrieve and submit quietly images and documents that support his thesis. Tom Woods will of course also do the same.

May 11, 2009

Attivissimo Dear Paul, may well proceed to publish my previous reply. As soon as I find the time, as I can at least try to answer the questions that are raised here.

Sincerely

Tom Bosco / NEXUS

May 31, 2009 On May 28 Tom Woods has sent its response to my comments. The discussion then continues in this article .